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Technical - General Notes |
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Workshop Manuals |
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There is no "Haynes" type of manual for this model although there are other manuals which cover the mechanicals as follows:
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Overview |
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(This may not be entirely accurate).
There are 3 main types of vehicle all very similar except for badging and some engine options. All the models were assembled in Italy by PSA, a joint venture by Fiat, Citroën and Peugeot. These are the Peugeot J5 (marketed as the "Talbot Express" in the UK) , Citroen C25, and Fiat Ducato. Fiat was also in collaboration with Alpha Romeo to at the SOFIM plant ((Societa Italiana Motori Franco / Franco Italian Motors Company) which led to the marking of the Apha Romeo AR6 and some Diesel engine variations for the Fiat Ducato. The Talbot Express etc was first introduced in 1984 with a range of Petrol (1.8) and diesel (1.9 and 2.5) engines (CRD93L U25/661). The petrol engine variant was very shortly bored out to 2000cc (the stroke remaining the same). It stayed that way till the end of the production of this model in 1993/4. As Peugeot owned Talbot they called the British version of the Peugeot J5 a Talbot Express. The J5 and its European cousins are the original design and the Talbot Express a RHD variant of these. UK model numbers refer to the load carrying capacity and can be determined and measuring the suspension set up with reference to the factory manuals. For example 1300p and 1300d are both 1300Kg load capacity models, petrol and diesel engined respectively . On the continent you will find model numbers listed as 280/290 etc referring to the pre-post facelift (the "MK2" was introduced in 1991 and can be identified by amongst other things, having sloping front side windows). Engine ranges:
As an aside it is possible to "Bleed" LPG into a diesel engine in conjunction with Diesel to boost performance. Set up of such a system should be entrusted to a specialist (if you can find one willing to do it) to avoid potential engine damage.
The gearbox comes in 4 or 5 speed versions with different ratios
(and speedometer drive ratio) to
match 14" or 16" wheeled vans. The integral gearbox and bell housing casings
means the gearbox will couple to 5 different engines. There are at least six
variations. The internals of the gearboxes can be changed over to suit many
applications with internal bearing changes in
later years
when some weaknesses in the earlier models was identified. All gearboxes are
now quite old and typical issues are worn syncronmech on 1st/2nd in
particular, loose/sloppy gearlinkage in Righthand drive form (this can be
fixed), oil leaks from the speedometer cable and/or differential (new seals
are available). The 16" wheeled Maxi type vans being 3500kg gross vehicles have heavier drive train, larger brakes, bigger c/v joints, larger discs at the front and rear drum brakes, plus bigger wheel bearings all round. These models are more likely to have original-fitment power steering (it was an option on all models including petrol versions) but it is still rare.
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Engine General |
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The Talbot Express base vehicles have what is considered very robust petrol engine. The Engine has a Steel Crankshaft, twin valve springs and duplex timing chain (almost twice the thickness of a standard chain) which allow it to turn very high RPM safely (Max power is produced @ 5800rpm on some car variants, although the de-tuned van version is @ 5000rpm) and still retain a high degree of reliability. The engine is effectively “choked’ by the Carburettor, exhaust manifold, Camshaft profile and head to sacrifice BHP for Torque. The 1.8 and 2.0 engines are virtually identical (the increase in capacity being achieved by increasing the bore size) but the 1.8s were not to my knowledge fitted to vans. Some Motor Factor’s parts books may list the 1.8 but not the 2.0 which is unlikely to cause any problems. There were a number of relatively minor but effective upgrades to the engine/carburetion throughout production . Most Vans in the UK will fun the 180B petrol engine (XN1). Towards the end of production the XN1TA (170C) appeared with some useful tweeks and increase in power. I have personally seen only one XN1TA van in the UK and this was a Fiat Ducato variant. The OHV Diesel engines are not considered as robust as the petrol versions with noticeable head/overheading issues especially as they get old and (perhaps) have not been as meticulously maintained as they should be. They are also (like the petrol engines) a very old design by modern standards, rough and loud. Replacement parts for the Diesels can also be very expensive so factor this in if considering engine choices. . All engines are "adequate" for a standard van conversion (with the possible exception of the 1.9 Diesel NA), and all are underpowered when fitted to the Coachbuilt motorhomes with their Luton body shell which is close to maximum weight at all times. Engine comparison is to some extent subjective, however of the engine types available (2.0 petrol, 1.9 and 2.5 NA diesels and 2.5 Turbo Diesel) the petrol engine is by far the quietest and quickest to warm up, The Petrol and Turbo Diesels are the most powerful (the TD having a reasonable power and useful torque advantage (especially on Motorway gradients!)) and the N/A Diesels are rather poor. Other user’s experience and posted comments of the N/A Diesels over the years suggests they are significantly under-powered for a Coachbuilt body (but I suspect probably ok in a van or possibly hightop conversion which has much less weight and air resistance). Worth repeating that all engines are underpowered compared to the modern high-torque units found in cars and modern vans. Having driven the more powerful Petrol engined version (updated 1991 model which is barely more than adequate in a coachbuilt) and I would not consider the N/A diesels in such a bodyshell. A Turbo Diesel is an attractive prospect for the additional torque, however given the relatively crude nature of the unit and the reliability issues (most noticeably overheating) I personally chose the Petrol Engined model. Practical Motorhome ran an article on these Petrol engines in early 2007 with the same conclusion. Annual Mileage for a UK Coachbuilt is typically only 2-4k and therefore the fuel saving of diesel is negligible compared to the downsides. Again in a more frequently used van conversion the balance may swing towards the diesel, or if one has a personal preference for such as there really is not much to choose between the Petrol and TD Variants when all things are considered. LPG conversions are available for Petrol Variants from with new kits from £550 up to £1500 for professionally fitted. From personal experience and other's comments the engines run a lot smoother on LPG, however they can give approximately 10% less power unless tuned properly (so advance the timing considerably) . The LPG tanks also weigh quite a lot and so reduce your load capacity (unless you keep the petrol tank level low). The installation is quite difficult in relation to mounting the tank(s) correctly to withstand crash/impact forces and potentially dangerous if fitted incorrectly. Fortunately the insurance companies usually insist that the system has a safety check report issued by an LPGA Approved installer (cost approx £50 a few years ago) although recent experience has show not all of the "approved" LPGA installers adhere to the organisation's own COP11 installation safety guidelines! Running on LPG requires a significantly advanced timing point which is not so good for petrol although acceptable on these low compression engines. A compromised engine set up is required. Personally I tolerate a slightly reduced Petrol performance (only noticeable when cold) and run at 14-16 degrees BTDC which gives excellent LPG performance. Some say that the different burn characteristics of LPG require the spark plug gaps to be altered (reduced from .7mm to .6mm) and LPG can overload the engine’s electrical ignition system, however I run new standard plugs at .7mm and have not noticed misfires under any load conditions, indeed on LPG the engine runs much smoother, particularly a lower RPM. In summer one need never use the petrol system at all as the vehicle starts immediately and runs off-choke with full power almost immediately . Based on my average annual mileage of 3-4k per annum it has taken just over 2 years to break even on a DIY Set up (see LPG pages for more info), but the real advantage to me is that the much lower "cost per mile" (or effectively higher mpg if you prefer) LPG consumption typically ranges from 14 - 17 MPG which by price equates to 25 - 30+ Mpg petrol and slightly more compared to Diesel (due to the higher price of Diesel).
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Engine Specs / Power outputs: |
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In reality there is not much to differentiate between them.
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ABA/169 (XM7T) : 1.8 ABT/170A/B (XN1T) : 2.0 ACU/170C (XN1TA) : 2.0 |
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1.9 Litre
Diesel |
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2.0 Petrol |
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Capacity |
1905cc |
Model |
280p / 280Ll (170B) XN1T |
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Max Power |
71PS
(51kW) @4600 rpm |
Production Years |
9.81 -> 9.90 |
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Max Torque |
12.5mkg
(122 Nm) @ 2000rpm |
KBA-Nr |
3003 208 |
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Capacity |
1971cc |
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2.5 L
Diesel |
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Max Power |
75hp
(55KW) @ 4750rpm |
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Capacity |
2500cc |
Max Torque |
15.5mkg
(152 Nm) @ 2500rpm |
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Max Power |
75PS
(54kW) @ 4100rpm |
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Max Torque |
15mkg
(147 Nm) @ 2000 |
Model |
290p / 290L (170/D) XN1TACP |
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Production Years |
10.90 onwards |
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2.5L Turbo Diesel |
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KBA-Nr |
3003 684 |
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Capacity |
2500cc |
Capacity |
1971cc |
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Max Power |
95PS @3700rpm |
Max Power |
84hp, (62KW), @ 4750rpm |
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Max Torque |
21.4mkg
(210 Nm) @2000rpm |
Max Torque |
18mkg (175 Nm) @ 2500rpm |
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Latest Engine Type figures |
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| Model | Engine | KW | PS (HP) | Eng Type | From | To |
| 280L/280P | 1.8 | 51 | 69 | 169B (XM7T) | 1/83 | 11/1988 |
| 2.0 | 55 | 75 | 170B (XN1T) | 1/86 | 11/1988 | |
| 2.0 | 58 | 79 | 170C (XN1T) | 1/83 | 11/1988 | |
| 2.5D | 54 | 73 | CRD93 (U25/661) | 9/81 | 9/1990 | |
| 290L/290P | 1.9D | 51 | 70 | D9B (XUD9A) | 10/90 | 3/1994 |
| 2.0 | 62 | 84 | 170D (XN1TACP) | 10/90 | 3/1994 | |
| 2.5D | 54 | 73 | CRD93 (U25/673) | 10/90 | 3/1994 | |
| 2.5TD | 70 | 95 | CRD93LS (U25/673) | 10/90 | 3/1994 | |
Engine Number Locations (Petrol and Diesel)![]() |
Engine Type identification Plate (1991 Petrol) (These plates are held on with a rivet and prone to rusting off!)
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Ignition Sequence (Firing Order)
Firing order is 1-3-4-2,
No.1 is at the gearbox end, |
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Tappets
(set fully open / Adjust) E1 / I3 E4 E3 / I4 E2 E4 / I2 E1 E2 / I1 E3 E=Exhaust I=inlet, inlet:0.10mm, exhaust:0.25mm |
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Engine oil: Service Interval: At least once per annum (in the event of exceptional use such as short journeys and towing shorten this to every 6 months) Viscosity:(Factory Recommendations) Petrol: 10w40 ( I
use Castrol GTX )
Type: Mineral (non-synthetic, there is no advantage to synthetic oils in an engine of this age) Additional Notes: Any good make will do. Personally I use GTX |
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Gearbox Oil: See separate gearbox page regarding level and dipstick re-marking. Type: Original Handbook 75w/80w GL5 spec My preference: 75w90 GL5 spec Semi-synthetic Shown opposite for info are:
Note TWO drain plugs.
This is due to the baffle that exists between the gearbox and final drive
sections to prevent the oil surging under acceleration/braking. The owners
handbook states that you must fill the gearbox through the reversing
light switch and NOT the dipstick hole otherwise there is a risk of
under filling the gearbox as the level in the final drive (where you are
measuring it with the dipstick) . |
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Tyre Pressures:
See separate
Tyres page
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Known Issues (excluding those specifically related to the Diesels models) |
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There are only a few issues specific to the Talbot Express base vehicles which are regarded as having pretty much “Bullet proof” petrol engines and rust-free chassis (Van conversions do have the usual body-rust problems of any van but not the chassis-cabs which are very well protected) |
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Exhaust Manifold |
The manifold studs corrode badly and can snap off eventually. They snap due to:
The manifold to head gaskets can fail (symptom is a "chuffing" noise when driving) allowing additional air into the exhaust on the over-run and possibly contributing to “popping”/backfiring through the exhaust. If you get this symptom first try relocating (or removing) the flexible air intake hose from behind the grill (under the spare wheel) as it "ram-air" the carb and causes excessively weak mixtures on the overrun when the carb is worn. Removal of the studs can be accomplished from underneath. Tip: soak the nuts in easing/penetrating oil (not WD40!) prior to attempting the job. If you can’t get the studs out then the head needs to be removed . This is a relatively simple task on this engine (as heads go) but still to be avoided if at all possible. The studs can then be drilled out professionally (approx £20 per stud) and the head skimmed (£40). Re-assembly with new gaskets (and head bolts if “Torx” type). Total cost excluding labour <£100 and unlikely to happen more than once in your ownership of the vehicle (provided you don’t persist with a worn rear engine mount or refit a warped manifold of course). Try not to over-tighten the manifold to Exhaust bolts either.
Special
note1: if purchasing a second hand manifold be very careful that it is
not already warped (even from specialist breaker). They tend to cost a
lot and will be no better quality than the original. Personally I would pay
twice as much to get a guaranteed new one of better quality from a main
dealer.
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Head corrosion |
The engine is sensitive to having the antifreeze/inhibitor to coolant water ratio maintained. Unfortunately this is often overlooked particularly when the vehicle is seldom used. A complete coolant flush and renewal should be done every 2 years (or longer if using a long-life antifreeze). If it does develop a (minor) internal water do not attempt to seal it using Radweld or “Barrs Leaks” as they don’t work. Halfords Block Sealer (horrible stuff) does work but is an emergency product only which is not anti-freeze compatible. If you’re looking at purchasing a vehicle and it has a lot of red residue in the header tank then you should be concerned!
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Final Drive / Gearbox Oil Leak / Level |
Also see Gearbox Page here:
Typically leaks from where the Speedometer cable enters the box and is clearly visible from under the vehicle. Easily cured with instant-gasket (the blue jelly-like stuff not Hematite) or by purchasing a £25 cable support bracket from Peugeot (I’ve not tried this). This gearbox has a very strange design and filling arrangement. The case is divided internally by a baffle/dam which rises from the floor to a height just below the filler level on the gearbox dipstick. It has separate drain plugs and It should be filled from the Reversing light hole but please see the Gearbox specific pages (link above) for further details.
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Gearbox Linkage |
Notorious (unjustly so in my opinion) the linkage is prone to wear in few specific points and can even be bent out of adjustment by rough handling. It is adjustable but not always easy to get right (trial and error) especially if the engine mounts are worn. Adjustment symptoms may include bashing your hand on the dashboard when engaging 1st,3rd,5th or being unable to select specific gears. The good news is that this is not a fault with the gear box and the linkages can easily (and cheaply ) be repaired / adjusted in most cases, or if not the linkage can even be replaced with an refurbish one (the latter being a rather an expensive option though). For more detail see my gearbox page here.
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General Technical Issues |
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Misfiring / Lack of power |
IMPORTANT - check at all the usual suspects first as this is most likely where any misfire or significant loss of power is occurring. Only after discounting these should you move on to the more unusual problems that might arrise:
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Failing that try the following :
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If you are running an old fuel tank be sure to fit a disposable filter and change it every 6 Months or annually depending on mileage. Below shows the rust deposits on a small disposable petrol filter after 12 months fitted to a 20yr old fuel tank. You don't want this rusty grit getting to the carburettor.
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Idle Cut-Off Valve |
The idle cut-off valve sticks out the left side of the carburettor (RH when viewed from the front of the vehicle) and has an electrical connector on the end. The function of the valve is solely to shut off the idle fuel feed when the ignition is turned off, so preventing 'running on'. This fuel circuit in the carb also provides fuel at low medium revs, acting in a similar way to the idle jet, so if it is not working the engine will be unable to idle and suffer very weak mixtures at low revs.
The idle cut-off valve is wired into the same
12v wiring which powers the coil so it opens whenever the ignition is on,
allowing the idle fuel to flow. If it fails in the shut position the engine will
still run (roughly) on the main jets at high revolutions but will stall as soon as you take your
foot off the throttle. If it sticks in the open position the idle fuel
circuit will remain open, so if the engine is still turning it will still
draw fuel through the idle jet, resulting in possible running on if there are hot
spot in one or more cylinders. With the idle cut-off
solenoid working correctly, hot spots in the cylinders don’t matter so much,
since there is no fuel available to keep the engine running once you turn off
the ignition.
It is very easy to check the idle cut-off
valve to make sure it is functioning properly. Turn the ignition on (but do
not start the engine). Disconnect the electrical lead from the valve, then touch it to the connector again. If it's working,
you'll hear a clicking sound as the relay pulls in. If you do not hear this
clicking sound, it's time to replace the idle cut-off valve. They are cheap
enough from Peugeot or Citroen. When replacing the idle-cut off valve in the carburettor, don't screw it in too hard ... it has fine brass threads and it's screwed into the soft metal of the carburettor. Also check that the valve hasn't worked loose in the carburettor -- they do sometimes, and then work only intermittently. And of course make sure that it's properly connected electrically as the lead can break off.
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Engine / Gear Oil |
Change Engine Oil regularly (at least annually for the engine) even if the 6000 mile service change hasn’t been reached. Use the appropriate good quality mineral oil and not some thinner (and more expensive) synthetic oil for this engine. Personally I'm a fan of Castrol GTX and have used it in all my older vehicles for over 25 years.
Use GL5 spec gear oil for the gearbox (check the specs in the manual). I get best Gearbox performance from Full/Semi-Synthetic 75w90 which is only slightly more expensive given the small amount required, and well worth it!. I should stress that I have not experimented with other oils in the Gearbox/final drive, only that the 75w/90 gave noticeably improved performance compared to the standard EP90. I change the Gearbox oil at least every 3 years, usually every 2 years.
Unusual Oil leaks such as around the timing chain cover can be and indication of excessive crack case pressure which may be caused by blocked (collapsed) breather hoses and/or blocked flame traps (the round items with wire mesh inside them on the breather hoses). Clean the flame traps using fuel or degreaser making sure they are thoroughly dry afterwards and replace any collapsed hoses. Often this will cure unusual oil leaks.
Note that a small amount of “mayonaise” in the Engine oil is not uncommon when looking where the oil is filled and the breather pipes on these engines due to their design and nature of use (i.e. infrequent use leads to moisture condensing from the air in the filler housing and crankcase) however the dipstick and oil drained from the engine should be clear.
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Brake fluid |
MUST be changed at 2 yearly intervals irrespective of use as the fluid absorbs moisture from the atmosphere (hydroscopic) which will degrade its performance and contribute to brake fade (very serious). The brakes are not that big and have a lot of work to do on these vehicles particularly given that Coachbuilt Motor homes typically run at close to their Maximum weight at all times. You might get away without doing this so regularly on highly braked modern car but with a fully laden coachbuilt on a steep hill it is not a risk I'd be prepared to take.
The task is made considerably easier with the use of a
one-man pressure bleeding kit such as Gunson’s “Eezi-bleed” (£15 from
Halfords), and takes less than an hour (excluding tea breaks!) doing it this
way. I find 10psi is perfectly adequate for the task. Do not use too higher
pressure or the Eezi-Bleed seals may fail introducing considerable air into
the fluid. You do not have to jack up the van but it may be worth spraying
the bleed nipples with easing oil (e.g. WD-40) the night before and be
careful not tighten them too much afterwards. Snapping a nipple off in a
calliper could be very time consuming / expensive. As a guide New callipers
are £165 and reconditioned ones are £95, new flexible hoses for the front are
£10 - £15 each. These are 2005 prices from an excellent local motor factor (
Swindon Auto parts,
Follow the bleed sequence in the manual which is rears first, then upper front cylinders, then lower fronts. I’d recommend you bleed most of the existing fluid out of the reservoir prior to adding the new fluid. Some people suggest using the Eezi-Bleed empty to blow out the old fluid first but unless you are confident you can get all the air out afterwards this isn’t recommended. Note that it is a split-system where one circuit operates the Rear and smaller front pistons and the other operates the larger front pistons.
Buying brake fluid in bulk from a motor factor is often cheaper, e.g. 5lt can work out as cheap as 2 x 1 litres. Note that DOT 5 is NOT compatible for mixing with older fluids therefore ONLY use DOT 3 or 4. If you have a lot left over and intend storing if for any length of time be sure to make the container as airtight as possible otherwise it will degrade in the bottle. Obviously this is not an area to economise on, particularly as moisture in the fluid is likely to boil just when you need the brakes most (e.g. on long descent) so if in doubt just buy new fluid every 2 years. Be sure to dispose of the old stuff responsibly at your local recycling depot.
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